Hi, I am currently taking the Green Party to court. I know that going to court is always a gamble, though I am confident that I will win in the end, but the huge amount of money it is costing keeps me awake at night, and it may be that I will have to sell my house to pay for the case. I know that even if I do win, it is very likely that I will not get all the money back even if I am awarded a proportion of the costs.
I know for sure that I am not the only person facing this kind of dilemma, and lots of other ordinary people are in the same boat, so how can we make it easier for ordinary people to plough through the legalise, because if I could have I would have represented myself, but it is such a huge risk.
What will it take for ordinary people to be able to access the law, and will the UK Supreme court ruling - if it clarifies that sex means biological sex - make it easier for people to represent themselves or at least make it possible to use a solicitor who has not had to spend months/years immersed in this topic?
I am a nurse and currently challenging my NHS employer. Please could you ask about the lawfulness of the NHSE guidance “Delivering same-sex accommodation” (specifically annex B). This is used widely in NHS Trusts to write policies for supporting trans patients. One outcome is that males are placed with females in female bays. Are there any upcoming legal cases that may prove Annex B unlawful and result in its removal? Thank you.
I’d like to know how Naomi has trained herself to keep an impassive face while she gently leads those she is cross examining down the garden path….particularly when some answers are so ridiculous/provoking 😊
My workplace is trying to introduce a requirement to ask our service users their gender when we record their details. What they mean is gender identity.
I know colleagues are unhappy as this can be a divisive way to start a conversation where gender doesn’t really have a bearing on the service provided (phone support line).
While there has been no communication as to how we explain what we mean by gender to clients yet, I know it’ll be the gender ideology version due to various inclusion training that’s been provided before. This is a third sector organisation, covering uk.
The options of male and female have been removed and replaced with woman (inc trans woman), man (inc trans man), intersex, non binary, agender, prefer to describe and declined. You therefore cannot choose an option which would satisfy a gender critical perspective.
I wonder if you have any thoughts about the issues this decision poses ?
Looking forward to this discussion. It's slightly experimental, and we may have to shout at each other a bit to make sure we're audible. Please reply to this comment with feedback on sound quality.
Michae/Naomi - Thank you for doing this. As a HR professional who has worked in two of the largest industries in the UK. Internal legal and external legal advice (at KC level) from a number of global legal firms have all provided advice and guidance on toilet facilities in the workplace. To a women and to a man!! ALL have said that applying the 1992 Regulations in isolation, may conflict with the Equality Act if it denies trans people access to appropriate facilities. This leaves employers with 3 options............whilst still trying to obviously balance these regulations by (1) providing unisex facilities or (2) allowing trans workers to use the facilities aligned with their gender identity or (3) advising trans employees to use either the facilities of their birth sex or go somewhere else but do not use the toilet based on the gender they identify with. You (Michael) have repeatedly posted on X that there is "no exceptions" to the 1992 regulations. All internal and external advice have all said that the 1992 Regs predate modern transgender rights frameworks and don’t mention gender identity—focusing instead on a male/female binary tied to biological sex. I personally agree that women should have their own private and safe space whether it be public or private employer toilet facilities - but I really do not think it is as straight forward as you both claim it to be (nor as easy to argue in an ET). Surely politicians and the legal professionals need to be more actively involved in the changes that are necessary. Employers the length and breadth of the country are following legal advice rather than it being about ideaoligcal capture. What advice and guidance can you provide around this.........
I'll repeat a question I asked a few months ago Michael which prompted you to consider doing some Q&As:
Having read the GRA, it seems to me (even without the benefit of hindsight) that it is not particularly well drafted. As for the EA, if legislation is impenetrable to those who must follow it, is it fit for purpose? I'd be interested to hear thoughts about whether both could have been better conceived.
Hi both, what is the point of a GRC if it’s kept secret and no one can ask to see it? I believe it doesn’t give automatic permission to enter the opposite sex’s spaces anyway?
Hi, I am currently taking the Green Party to court. I know that going to court is always a gamble, though I am confident that I will win in the end, but the huge amount of money it is costing keeps me awake at night, and it may be that I will have to sell my house to pay for the case. I know that even if I do win, it is very likely that I will not get all the money back even if I am awarded a proportion of the costs.
I know for sure that I am not the only person facing this kind of dilemma, and lots of other ordinary people are in the same boat, so how can we make it easier for ordinary people to plough through the legalise, because if I could have I would have represented myself, but it is such a huge risk.
What will it take for ordinary people to be able to access the law, and will the UK Supreme court ruling - if it clarifies that sex means biological sex - make it easier for people to represent themselves or at least make it possible to use a solicitor who has not had to spend months/years immersed in this topic?
Thanks
I am a nurse and currently challenging my NHS employer. Please could you ask about the lawfulness of the NHSE guidance “Delivering same-sex accommodation” (specifically annex B). This is used widely in NHS Trusts to write policies for supporting trans patients. One outcome is that males are placed with females in female bays. Are there any upcoming legal cases that may prove Annex B unlawful and result in its removal? Thank you.
Thank you for the many interesting questions - including many we didn't have time to answer!
I’d like to know how Naomi has trained herself to keep an impassive face while she gently leads those she is cross examining down the garden path….particularly when some answers are so ridiculous/provoking 😊
My workplace is trying to introduce a requirement to ask our service users their gender when we record their details. What they mean is gender identity.
I know colleagues are unhappy as this can be a divisive way to start a conversation where gender doesn’t really have a bearing on the service provided (phone support line).
While there has been no communication as to how we explain what we mean by gender to clients yet, I know it’ll be the gender ideology version due to various inclusion training that’s been provided before. This is a third sector organisation, covering uk.
The options of male and female have been removed and replaced with woman (inc trans woman), man (inc trans man), intersex, non binary, agender, prefer to describe and declined. You therefore cannot choose an option which would satisfy a gender critical perspective.
I wonder if you have any thoughts about the issues this decision poses ?
Great conversation. Thank you for your time, and sharing your expertise.
Is there ever a circumstance in which a man is allowed to be in a woman's toilet or changing facility? If so, what?
Thanks so much for doing this live chat!
Looking forward to this discussion. It's slightly experimental, and we may have to shout at each other a bit to make sure we're audible. Please reply to this comment with feedback on sound quality.
Michae/Naomi - Thank you for doing this. As a HR professional who has worked in two of the largest industries in the UK. Internal legal and external legal advice (at KC level) from a number of global legal firms have all provided advice and guidance on toilet facilities in the workplace. To a women and to a man!! ALL have said that applying the 1992 Regulations in isolation, may conflict with the Equality Act if it denies trans people access to appropriate facilities. This leaves employers with 3 options............whilst still trying to obviously balance these regulations by (1) providing unisex facilities or (2) allowing trans workers to use the facilities aligned with their gender identity or (3) advising trans employees to use either the facilities of their birth sex or go somewhere else but do not use the toilet based on the gender they identify with. You (Michael) have repeatedly posted on X that there is "no exceptions" to the 1992 regulations. All internal and external advice have all said that the 1992 Regs predate modern transgender rights frameworks and don’t mention gender identity—focusing instead on a male/female binary tied to biological sex. I personally agree that women should have their own private and safe space whether it be public or private employer toilet facilities - but I really do not think it is as straight forward as you both claim it to be (nor as easy to argue in an ET). Surely politicians and the legal professionals need to be more actively involved in the changes that are necessary. Employers the length and breadth of the country are following legal advice rather than it being about ideaoligcal capture. What advice and guidance can you provide around this.........
I'll repeat a question I asked a few months ago Michael which prompted you to consider doing some Q&As:
Having read the GRA, it seems to me (even without the benefit of hindsight) that it is not particularly well drafted. As for the EA, if legislation is impenetrable to those who must follow it, is it fit for purpose? I'd be interested to hear thoughts about whether both could have been better conceived.
Sorry another one- there is a petition to fully repeal the GRA at the moment. Do you think this will get anywhere at all?
Hi both, what is the point of a GRC if it’s kept secret and no one can ask to see it? I believe it doesn’t give automatic permission to enter the opposite sex’s spaces anyway?
Hi Michael
Is it possible to send a Zoom link?
Cheers
Dusty
I think you'll need to join via Substack Dusty.
Make sure you've got the app installed and join via the notification.
Ok thanks WOTE👍